Because I can't leave well enough alone...

Right so Stephann Herman, a long time Ubuntu contributor, who I have corresponded with a lot, and have met in person too (when I was working with Ubuntu) posted this on the Ubuntu Planet blog:

Ubuntu is going to be sexy...
Oh yeah, after a long long time, I can see, that Ubuntu will be not only usable, but it's going to be the sexiest Linux ever ,)

Yeah, please "spam" my comments, and yeah, I like to be the worst case of not being political correct, but I like to see more women posting to planet.ubuntu,com.

To see the first time Sarah on this planet, I was proud to see this very "sexy lady" from Australia.

Come one, Linuxchix, please do more for the linux community, and get ready for this planet...

I'm proud to be one member of this community.

Thx Miriam and Sarah to be here, and let's rock .....

After seeing that Sarah Hobbs is now contributing to the Ubuntu Planet.

Note that Stephan is German, so his use of English is not particularly subtle... but none-the-less he is a sweet and well meaning man.

Was Stephan being rude or offensive or sexist? I don't think so. Linux is OFTEN described as 'sexy' both within the development team and the community at large, no one has taken offence to that before.

This is Stephan Hermann.
This is Sarah Hobbs.
(Note that she doesn't seem to mind that 2 males are trying to pick her up and evidently fairly forcibly take her out to throw her in the pool - that's not intimidation, discrimination or offensive in any way. It's just fun, see!)

Now Sarah didn't seem to be particularly offended by Stephan's post, and responded with this:

Now, i’m not annoyed at being called a sexy lady - if it’s sincere, then it’s a compliment, and I’ll accept it as such…

…But I really wouldn’t want that to be the only thing that people thought of when they looked at me, or what I do - surely I’m more than just my body? I have a brain too, you know…

I don't think Stephan was calling Sarah's mental acumen into question, he was merely expressing excitement and approval that more females were getting involved with Ubuntu. Something women themselves have been pushing for, so I can't see why this is a problem.

Stephan later posted another unrelated post:

Let me present to you: iGasm
Yeah, if you have an iPod and iGasm, plug this tool into your iPod, and have fun. Are you listening to Bass'n'Drum? Or Rock'n'Roll? Have fun with it. More bass, more fun.

So, what has Apple to do with?
Well, our friends from GB are very well known for their british black humor. Ann Summers advertised their toy with a poster,
which is very near the original iPod poster.

In steps Melissa Draper, who seems to be the self appointed morality and woman's (and now children's) rights police for Ubuntu.

This is Melissa:

(This is not a great photo, but all I could find, and in all seriousness if anyone has a nicer one please let me know and I'll replace this.)

Melissa decided Stephan is being offensive to women and children and wholly inappropriate.

The debate has raged on all over the place... (Google it or follow the threads in the links I have posted, you are actually interested) ...I stumbled on it yesterday and read all about it and then finally responded with this ...

Gah this is exactly why I am anti women’s movements. What a storm in a tea cup!

I do not endorse or participate in any women-specific groups because I believe in individual merits and people being able to fit in according to their abilities, interests and attributes.

I don’t need or want special treatment as a women and I certainly would never expect a community (male dominated or otherwise) to CHANGE because I wanted to join it.

I have never had any gender discrimination ,or harassment issues, largely because I don’t allow it to happen or bother me. I am me and I achieve accordingly for myself. Not despite or because I am female.

And for the record I am on Shephan’s side on this one, his posts were in no way offensive, neither the one welcoming Sarah (unsubtle and a bit over enthusiastic maybe) nor the iGASM one (please it is at most a bit risque…).

And frankly if someone is going to be stoned to death for that showing up on her screen, perhaps you should focus your energy on addressing that problem.

And if you are uncomfortable with your own sexuality, why not address that?

The rest of us are educated adults, and don’t need you to be a nanny for us.

This is also the reason I always declined being listed on planet.

Kthnaxbye.

Melissa responded to me:

@JaneW

Storms in teacups are how change comes about. Think of the most influential changes in the world. How many of those involved 0 conflict?

I too agree that one should be judged on their merits. I also happen to believe that everyone should feel comfortable enough to learn and allowed to fit in so as to exhibit these merits. Harassment robs many people of this, and turning a blind eye to the situation is no form of justice.

As a woman, I do not want special treatment either. I especially do not want that special treatment that asks me to show photos of the private parts of my body, or that which leaves me with with unanswered support questions because instead of having my question answered, I receive special treatment in the form of ridicule and belittlement.

If you really have not *ever* had *any* gender discrimination or harassment issues then you have lived a truly blessed life. I have missed out on jobs, and been told explicitly it was because I was female and hence for this reason alone incapable of the task — with absolutely no chance to prove myself. This is discrimination. I have been harassed both online and in real life because I am female. Yet, my experiences are tame compared to many I have heard. These things do not happen because one chooses to be affected by them.

And for the record, if my first contact with the Ubuntu community had been to see a picture of an sex toy on planet.ubuntu.com, I would have assumed I had come to the wrong place and not have gone any further, as I came for linux and free software, *not* for discussion of adult novelties. I would go elsewhere for that — all the squatted sites with adult advertisements for instance. It has absolutely nothing to do with my sexuality and that was highly indecent of you to suggest so.

“The rest of us” also includes those under 16/18/21 or whatever is the legal age of consent in the many many countries throughout the world. It also include those of primary/grade school ages. “The rest of us” are not all adults. Think of the children, please.

So sorry Melissa, if you think I was highly indecent to suggest you may have an issue with your own sexuality. But from my POV it certainly is coming across that way, as you have managed to turn 2 fairly innocuous posts into not only a morality war, but also a women and children's rights debate.

As a parent, I think I do think of the children and think I am in a position to judge what is offensive and or damaging to them (for my own children at any rate). Any education, including sexual education, isn't damaging. Pretending things don't exist, lying, and misinformation is.

I agree that this debate has caused more tension in the community and more likelihood of new comers turning away, because they don't like what they see, than if it was just left to be.

I also can't help but wonder if Melissa is not put out that she wasn't welcomed into the community with the same gusto. Sour grapes perhaps?

Who is right, who is wrong, and does it even MATTER!?

You be the judge....