Irritated

I got myself all worked up over an IRC discussion last night... I should have just gone to bed...

Stupid Raven!

(Flame/Slashdot him now!http://www.flickr.com/photos/ripienaar/ He takes nice pics but is an asshole.)

retards
Jane

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Largo picture a bunch of networking geeks telling stories
Largo got some vaguely experienced dudes here
Nuffing heh
Largo got a compliment about ubuntu too
Largo Its pretty
Raven it is, prolly the nicest of the linux desktops that I've seen, still wouldnt use it as primary desktop though
Nuffing Largo: w00t
Nuffing ubuntu rocks :)
Nuffing esp breezy
Raven the installer sux donkey balls though
Nuffing Raven: what's wrong with it? works for me...
Raven Nuffing: its crap
Nuffing Raven: although it is being improved anyway
Raven Nuffing: you've obviously not had enough studies done with non linux people on how easy it is to use
Nuffing er I am basically non linux...
Raven did u install the first one without any help?
Raven cos I've had 3 diff people of varying tech abilities try install it this week and the partitioner screws them over each time
Nuffing the first one maybe (responding to the it's crap comment fyi..)
Nuffing it's matured a LOT since then....
Raven its identical to the debian 3.1 installer, both sux
Raven put a newbie infront of windows installer and they have no probs
Raven I've also had it install on a box where it didnt support the screen card properly
Raven then when it boots you just end up with a blank screen
Raven no GUI
Largo raven: i agree it can be easier but i didnt find it that difficult
Raven but X was running, it just managed to screw the video output up, so you couldnt even log in from the console at all
Raven not giving people choices of what software is being installed at install time is completely unexcusable
Raven redhat got their installers pretty much perfect from day one
Raven you've always been able to do selections of software to install
Raven they got graphical installers around 4.2 or whas it 5?
Raven brilliantly scriptable for automated installs
Nuffing anyway I am in a meeting...
Nuffing but thanks for the opinions
Raven but once its going its not bad, we're giving away 15 desktops to people at work I've got ubuntu on them all
Raven and got the desktop support people to do some of the installs, they ony support the windows machines
Raven so they're a good test audience, they liked it once installed, but the installer gave them all nightmares
Nuffing good to know
Nuffing edubuntu is going for a 'chicken install'
* KnightOrc has issues with people installing Linux
inflex hah
KnightOrc Linux + GUI == problems
KnightOrc Linux without a GUI is fine
Raven yip, ubuntu is pretty etc, but i totally wouldnt use day to day etc
Raven neither would i use any other linux desktop I've ever seen
KnightOrc any server you can't control completely via a terminal session == arse
inflex well, that's why I use Slackware if I must use linux on a server
KnightOrc Windows Shell might be interesting *8)
Raven am forced into using debian servers for something
Raven driving me insane
Raven just cant get over the Debian-exim user
Nuffing this was the old version http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=305&slide=1
Nuffing new screenshots don't show installer for some odd reason
Raven thats exactly how the installer looks that I see when i run the iso i downloaded today from your site :)
Raven and it blows
Nuffing https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuExpress/GnomeUserInterface - a goal for the next release " Rationale: The current installer is ugly and confusing, especially in the partitioning stage. We want people to be amazed at how easy and pleasant the Ubuntu installation experience is. We also want them to be able to get work done while Ubuntu is installing."
* inflex CURSES and swears at linux wifi
Raven nods
Raven the osdir.com screenshots for breezy badger has installer screenshots
Nuffing inflex: mine works fine
Nuffing Raven: where?
Raven http://shots.osdir.com/slideshows/slideshow.php?release=342&slide=2
inflex Nuffing: this is a Toshiba genuine wifi card (miniPCI) for my laptop (TE2000). Works fine in XP (of course), sort of works in linux, everything shows up, you just can't configure it right
inflex try to configure the AP "Sorry, can't do that", try to configure the frequency "Sorry, can't do that"
inflex gharrrr... this is the trouble with linux... 90% complete stuff
Raven inflex: no doubt the machines that nuffing has were bought specifically for linux used and spec'd up for compatibility etc
inflex Raven: there should be a distinction between "Linux detects it" and "Linux can use this device correctly"
Raven yip
Nuffing Raven: I have an IBM T42p - I am happy
inflex d00d uz3 l1nU><, 1t'5 l33+
* inflex straps on his barbed wire wang and prepares to assult another penguin
Raven Nuffing: like i said, bought and spec'd up to work great iwth linux so you can tell everyone it works shit hot and never have any problems :P no go buy a laptop that normal people would get over the counter and try again
Nuffing Raven: ah right those shots were Colony 1... first CD build for Breezy ... ages ago
Raven Nuffing: it still looks the same on the ISO i got today
Nuffing ok
Nuffing anyway you guys sound so negative for ppl who supposedly support linux
KnightOrc Nuffing: we're FreeBSD supporters
Raven Nuffing: no, we're sounding that way cos you're sounding like the fanboy who cant see how things really are
inflex being in #linux doesn't me we support it.... just like I am in #c but I don't suggest it to most ppl
KnightOrc we just couldn't be bothered to change the channel name
Nuffing and afais things are progressing and improving all the time
Raven Nuffing: I'm telling you i had 3 windows people install 15 ubuntu machines and give me feedback on intall and use experience and the best you can do is tell me yours work great *shrug*
* Raven 's installed linux machines in 15 countries, if i didnt support it that wouldnt be the case
Nuffing no actually that wasn't the best I could do, that was my first resonse I then took a lot of time to explain that it's being improved and to give you the URL of the spec describing it and thanked you for your feedback...
Raven Nuffing: fact is 90% of your target audience will run the OS on a laptop that costs 1/4 of what yours did, and for them the expeirence will almost 90% of the time be utterly crap
Raven Nuffing: but you'd never know that
Nuffing Raven: and just to be pedantic you did not say "i had 3 windows people install 15 ubuntu machines and give me feedback on intall and use experience" initially, you said, " the installer sux donkey balls" to which I replied 'works for me'
Nuffing Raven: don't you think we get user feed back?
Nuffing raven: or buy someting like 100 laptops and give them to ppl to test so we can adapt and improve to ensure they are fully supported?
Raven Nuffing: yeah, works for you cos you had the developer hold your hand and explain it to you
Nuffing Raven, fuck you
Raven Nuffing: thats the spirit
---
later...

Nuffing try Ubuntu "The only installer with BUILT IN ORAL SEX!"
Raven try ubuntu "The only distro that spams irc channels" :)
Nuffing I didn't bring it up Largo did
Nuffing and what happened to you ppl anyway?
Raven we're bored, you're apparently easy to annoy
Nuffing you all used to be fun, interesting and entertaining, now you are bitter, ascerbic and perpetually complaining
Nuffing yes it is annoying
Nuffing Raven: I still take issue with your attitude, bacuse apart from my initial response, which was very resonsable after your comment (and being in a meeting and unable to respond fully at the time) I have illustrated as well as I could that there is energy and focus going into improving the installer, so I don't know what you are on about...
Raven I'm on abnout "ubuntu roqs" all the fucking time, when there are many many a) issues with it b) scenarios where it does not, which you're usually not prepare to admit
Nuffing so yes I work for Canonical, but I hardly ever mention it, and I didn't bring it up tonight
Nuffing yes there are issues, which are a)being improved on all the time, and b) we welcome constructive feedback
Nuffing and my main point is that it's NOT perfect
Nuffing but it's prgressing and getting better all the time
Nuffing so compared to Breezy, Warty was awful and soom Breezy will seem awful
Nuffing we are trying to keep moving forward
Raven so it doesnt roq yet, cos for every aspect of it, there are distros that does it better, maybe not 1 distro that does everything better, but right now, it has issues
Nuffing it's not trying to be the best of everything
Nuffing it's trying to be useable
Nuffing and right the installer isn't perfectly usable
Nuffing but that wasn't the #1 priority
Nuffing but it is being addressed for the next release
Nuffing windows didn't get to where it is within 3 releases either...
Raven yip, so the first tthing i said was it was pretty and decent once installed
Raven then you made a swooping statement, and i made one right back at ya
Raven and then you proved that you were incapable of having a mature argument when you told me to get fucked
Raven so right at yeah, get fucked.
Raven ..right back at yah...
Nuffing because you offended me by asserting that I would only be able to install it myself with a developer holding my hand
Nuffing I find that very offensive
Raven Nuffing: I wasnt asserting, i was quoting fact, you said you had it shown to you the first time
Raven Nuffing: everyone i showed the first time has no problems installing it now
Nuffing I didn't have someone show me
Nuffing I said the first version's installer sucked
Raven ah so then you just didnt answer my question
Raven i asked did someone help you
Raven you said 'the first one maybe'
Nuffing no they didn't
Nuffing I installed it myself following the prompts
Nuffing I'll concede that I do have a laptop with pretty darn good linux support
Nuffing and some other brands may not be as easy yet
Nuffing but anyway I am done arguing now.
Nuffing Sorry.
* Disconnected (Connection reset by peer).
* Nuffing already in use. Retrying with jane_...
*
Largo Hello Nuffing...
Largo Sorry my comment started a bit of unpleasantness :/
Nuffing Largo: not your fault at all
Nuffing Largo: I shouldn't have let myself get so worked up
Nuffing Largo: besides your comment was nice :)
Largo I agree with Raven in that it looks pretty (I ahven't used it a lot) and that the installer needs work...I also like that they are working on the installer to make it easier to use...
Nuffing I think I just get riled if I think someone is questioning my abilities (and how I do my job)
Nuffing the installer is one of the main complaints we get
Nuffing so a gui and other improvements are def on the cards
Largo Good...
Nuffing but since it's something you see once, it wasn't the first priority to get right.
Nuffing other functionality came first
Largo Unfortunately first impressions last... :(
Nuffing I would love to get proper feedback from Raven's guys still, we welcome stuff like that
Nuffing yeah the thing is no matter what you do, some ppl won't like it
Nuffing I guess we are trying to make a windows equivalent linux, power users may want their customised best-for-purpose build, and that's fine
Nuffing Ubuntu is for human beings not (just) techies
Nuffing anyway I'll shut up now
Largo heh